Double Loop Podcast

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray return to the annual IAI conference in San Antonio to talk to attendees about the interesting lectures and workshops that they've seen this year. Morgan Hays from Florida talks about how he stays current with the field as a supervisor and how the exclusion and verification topics were covered at the conference. Do you trust your verifier? Linda Manigault from Nevada then joins the conversation and discusses the workshops on FRStat and statistical models that she attended. Glenn ends the episode with a BIG announcement!

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray wrap up the three-part discussion on the AAAS Report on the Quality and Gap Analysis of Latent Fingerprint Examination. Surprisingly, the guys agree with many of the recommendations and conclusions in the document with an occasional quibble or clarification. As was hinted in the past two episodes, there are more serious concerns with the report's suggested language and proposed limitation of the word "identification".

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray continue the discussion on the pros and cons of the AAAS report. Carey participated with the review of the report and discusses the positive recommendations and the limitations that come from the report not being published in a traditional peer-reviewed journal. After that discussion wrapped up, Carey, Eric, and Glenn get a little off-topic and talk about attending AFIS Users' Conferences. Carey and Glenn presented at the most recent Idemia conference on the benefits of the Case AFIS system. Eric talks about a local AFIS conference and user discussions on how data analysis can lead to improved search practices.

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray finally get around to discussing the report on latent fingerprint comparisons from the American Association for the Advancement of Science. John Black (from Black and White Forensics) was on the committee that wrote the report and joins the discussion on some of the merits and limitations of the paper. While many of the research recommendations are the next steps that the latent print field needs, they are also the same recommendations made by other reports. One of the report's main failures is the suggested wording for the identification decision.

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray are joined by Della Wilkinson from Canada to discuss the final resolution of the Bornyk case from British Columbia. Originally, Judge Funt (see Double Loop Podcast episdoe 10) ruled that the fingerprint evidence would not be admitted after conducting his own study of latent prints and his own comparison. The Crown appealed and a new trial began with the original examiner, the verifier, Della, and Simon Cole. This episode the Double Loop Podcast also pays tribute to Tony Cantu. He will be missed.

Eric Ray sits down for an interview with Simon Cole from the University of California Irvine. Simon explains how he first became interested in forensics and in latent print comparisons in general, and then outlines the history of his criticisms of the field. Glenn Langenburg later joins Eric for a review of the interview and some of Glenn's perspectives on how Simon's criticisms and the latent print response have both evolved over time.

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray continue their interview with Matt Marvin from Ron Smith and Associates about the erroneous identifications and eventual exoneration of Beniah Alton Dandridge. This video (available on YouTube via RayForensics.com) goes through an in-depth and technical review of the latent prints, the errors, the exclusions to Dandridge, and the eventual identifications to the victim's son (who discovered the body).

Eric Ray hosts a live Double Loop Podcast discussion at the 2017 Florida Division IAI Conference in Panama City Beach, FL, and Glenn Langenburg joins via phone for the discussion. The audience hit Eric and Glenn with a variety of questions and the conversation swings from AFIS automation to using AFIS as a support for an identification decision. From the requirements that Florida courts put on latent print examiners to how to keep improving yourself so that you can make that jump into a career in forensics.

Eric Ray and Glenn Langenburg are joined by Matt Marvin of Ron Smith and Associates to discuss in greater detail the details of the Beniah Dandridge case. Matt discusses how he and RSA got involved in the case, the history of the Manning murder, the original investigation, the Dandridge trial, his appeals, RSA's involvement, and Dandridge's eventual release. Check back to RayForensics.com soon for a YouTube video detailing the comparisons in this case.

Eric Ray and Glenn Langenburg discuss two forensic cases that have been in the news in the past few years. First, the guys talk about the recent Golden State Killer case. How did DNA testing and genealogy combine to solve these 40 year old crimes? What databases were accessed and was it ethical to do so? Secondly, Eric and Glenn discuss how accessing profiles of Y chromosomes from online sites led Idaho Falls detectives to Michael Usry, Jr. In 1996 Angie Dodge was murdered and Chris Tapp has been in prison for decades, but things get turned upside down when new technology comes into play.

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray tackle two articles in one fantastic episode. First, "Lay Understanding of 'Identification': How Jurors Interpret Forensic Identification Testimony" by Henry Swofford and Jessica Cino from the Journal of Forensic Identification. Secondly, the guys tackle a paper from the Journal of Forensic Sciences, "Comparing Categorical and Probabilistic Fingerprint Evidence" by Brandon Garrett, et al. The big question is: should we say "identification" or should we express the same conclusion in a probabilistic manner?

Eric Ray and Glenn Langenburg continue their discussion with Alicia Wilcox on her research into how juries hear forensic testimony. This time we focus even more on questions of opposing experts, error rates, and what's the most important thing for an expert to have. A degree? Years of experience? An accredited lab?

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray join with Dr. Alicia Wilcox from Husson University in Bangor, Maine in a discussion of her research juries and their understanding of forensic testimony. Even though forensic scientists may try to present data in precise and sometimes mathematical way, jurors tend to interpret forensic testimony according to whether the evidence fits well into the story that they have constructed of the crime.

Eric Ray and Glenn Langenburg discuss last year's article, Using the PCAST Report to Exclude, Limit, or Minimize Experts by Eric Alexander Vos published in Criminal Justice. We note the extreme bias of the article to exploit the emotions of the judge and jury instead of logic, reason, or data, and we find the serious flaws in many aspects of the paper.

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray follow up from last week's discussion of Glenn's recent Daubert hearing with a 2016 article from Jonathan Koehler entitled, Intuitive Error Rate Estimates for the Forensic Sciences. As Glenn suspected, the findings of this article are suspiciously close to the center of the group of choices that participants were presented with. Although there are some larger themes that are interesting, the exact values of the error rate estimates from potential jurors do not match personal experience or even some of the cited prior works.

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray return after another hiatus to share travel stories and then to discuss a Daubert hearing that Glenn recently testified in. Short version: having all this new research is way better than when we didn't have it.

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray continue their interview with Anja Einseln regarding the merger of ASCLD-LAB and ANAB. Validation of methods and reasons for labs to choose accreditation are some of the many topics covered this time around.

Glenn Langenburg and Eric Ray first revisit a couple of additional aspects of our previous discussion on defense interviews in Illinois before diving into the deep end of accreditation. Anja Einseln joins the Double Loop Podcast as our guest expert on ASCLD/LAB, ANAB, and all things accreditation. In the first half we talk about some of the changes that will be coming with the recent merger of ASCLD/LAB and ANAB and what it means for latent print units in accredited labs.

Eric and Glenn tackle a topic that will be a major concern of labs across the country in the next few years, the merger of ASCLD-LAB and ANAB. Some of the changes include the elimination of Latent Print Appendix, the elimination of the Administrative Review requirement, and slight wording changes that may result in huge changes to latent print reports and notes.

Glenn and Eric continue to discuss the 2017 International Conference on Forensic Inference and Statistics. This time Glenn tells about some troubling trends emerging from Illinois where forensic scientists are refusing to answer questions related to the foundational validity of the discipline. He also touches on new work on a different type of Likelihood Ratio approach from Cedric Neumann and colleageus.